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An insight to Stats - a Vermuelen close-up 8 views 2 Comments
11 September 2013 by The Commish
 
Connected with: Wiki Player Duane Vermeulen, James O'Connor

In response to queries around Vermuelen playing for South Africa against Australia last weekend - why the stats are what they are.

Our stats are very often queried, occasionally for good reason but usually due to perception rather than fact.  Doubt is also introduced when other stats providers produce whimsical numbers and/or numbers based on totally different definitions - which of course are quite different to our own.

Recently there were questions asked about Vermuelen when he played for South Africa against Australia last weekend.  The response from our stats guru reproduced verbatum below, explains why the stats are what they are and gives a little insight to the process we go through in collecting our numbers.

Checked the game

 At 19.12 - it looks like Vermuelen has won a turnover in a ruck but the ball is lost forward by a Springbok in the ruck before it comes out so didn't award it

 At 33.30 - it looks like Vermuelen has won a turnover (he was the tackler) but Louw is over the ball hands on it so awarded it to Louw (Folau penalised for holding on) - this is shown in the slow mo replay

 At 67.30 - Quade Cooper knocks the ball forward, Vermuelen catches it (Vermuelen wasn't the tackler, didn't cause him to lose the ball), doesn't go forward but offloads and it goes to ground, Willie Le Roux picks it up 40m out breaks the line and scores so didn't give anything for that play

 I wouldn't make any changes, the only borderline one would be the first one but the Springboks didn't actually win a turnover in the end

James O'Connor is a busy player who consistently scores well, and we can assure it has nothing to do with his haircut... although perhaps we should dish out a few negative points for bad taste!
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2 . MN Gholfers 11 Sep 2013 07:12 PM
So if I understand the explanation correct, although Vermeulen was the cause of Folau being penalized, only Folau gets a penalty against him and Vermeulen doesn't get the credit for the resulting penalty. And because Vermeulen's teammates cocked up his turnover he's not credited with a turnover and although he's intercept turnover was a major contributer towards Willie's try he doesn't get credit for that either? Hmm... Somehow that brings the 'definition' of awarding a turnover into question? 2 out of 3 was major contributions to the game and neither is recognized?

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1 . RickyLeeu 11 Sep 2013 06:22 PM
Thanks for the review - my perception is that Duane did not get the ball from a static point of play and thus according to definition from broken play the player needs to beat into the defensive line and establish front 'foot ball'. Duane received the ball in broken play, beat the first tackler behind the advantage line and managed to get the offload to Willie (on the point of origin). The fact is that my perception is that the fact that Duane did not establish front foot ball is the scorer's perception :) as for O'Connor - I agree that he is a busy boy and he always scores well - my perception is that those 50/50 decisions (like these ones we had with Duane) tend to go in favour of the man with the bad taste.... but the fact is that it is our own decision not to buy him :D

But it must be said that generally the scorers get it right - there will always be discrepancies. Thats a fact!

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