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When A Forward Pass Isn't Forward - TMO Scrutiny 1 views 12 Comments
04 May 2013 by The Swede Eaters
 

The TMOs have come under scrutiny after Chiefs coach Dave Rennie came out suggesting that the TMO made mistakes in the Chiefs 39 - 33 win over the Rebels. Initially I agreed, but below is evidence why the TMOs have done a better job than most people realise.

Chiefs coach Dave Rennie is critical of Australian TMO Steve Leszcynski's performance in the Chiefs 39 - 33 win over the Rebels in Melbourne last night. I saw the game and I initially agreed with him. I was initially a massive fan of the introduction of technology to help improve decision making in rugby, but it seems that the TMOs are making more incorrect decisions than most referees would make and taking all that extra time going upstairs becomes a waste of time, well so I thought.

The Rebels were lucky to score two tries from what looked like forward passes to the naked eye, but it appears that when you see these after watching the video from the Total Rugby show based on "Relative Velocity" it will change your mind. It doesn't matter if a player receives a pass infront of the point it was thrown from. What matters is if it was passed backwards. See the video below for details.

I have also included a video report as Lyndon Bray talks to TVNZ news about the TMO decisions in the Rebels vs Chiefs game and concedes that the disallowed Chiefs try was the wrong decision, but has no problem with the two Rebels tries scored by potential forward passes. What do you think of these TMO decisions?

http://www.superrugbytips.com/2013/05/the-tmo-in-super-rugby-when-forward.html


It seems that when the TMO is used to determine if a try was scored from a forward pass, the likelihood of the try being allowed is great than if it is for a grounding of a ball or knock on infringement. To the naked eye, heaps of passes look forward which according to the rules of the game are not forward. Quade Cooper throws plenty of these passes which are never picked up, but that is because are often technically not forward passes even though the recipient catches the ball infront of where Cooper passed it from.

Knock downs, knock ons or tries in regards to whether someone grounded a ball or knocked it on seem to be disallowed more often. Slow motion almost adds an element of separation to any grounding of the ball and makes legal tries sometimes seem like they aren't a try. In the past the benefit of the doubt used to go to the attacking team, but the benefit of the doubt is now with the defensive team.

Hosea Gear for the Highlanders vs Brumbies is one example, while the Crusaders vs Force that week provided a few other examples. It was also not clear if Patrick Osbourne lost the ball forward or not, but it seems that in slow motion players appear to lose the ball when grounding it, even though in real speed and in actual fact they don't.

Anyway, it seems that there is definitely more chance of getting a good decision from the TMO if a forward pass is the issue rather than if it may have been knocked on!

Is it my imagine or do New Zealand teams playing against Australian teams seem to be getting the rough end of the stick? Think Highlanders vs Brumbies, Crusaders vs Force and now Chiefs vs Rebels!

What do you think of the TMO performances in Super Rugby 2013?

Have your say!

http://www.superrugbytips.com/2013/05/the-tmo-in-super-rugby-when-forward.html

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Tags: Super Rugby,



comment Comments (12)
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12 . deep 07 May 2013 11:32 PM
Way too much academia philosophical blah.

I'm surprised nobody has brought up the old 'sitting on passenger jet and pass the ball to someone in the row behind' example - of course in some cases the ball actually travels forward relative to the ground while the ball was obviously passed to someone behind.

Looking at how the ball is held is a crock - take SBW for instance, holding the ball in one big mit with hand in front - the ball can still go in any direction - forward, backward, up, down, left, right, or nearly any combination of.

I say get back to the basics - just look at it from a half decent angle and it's usually pretty darn obvious when a player passes the ball behind them and when it spills forward. 'Line' balls end up being how the ref sees it and that's just part of the game.

Higgenbots might as well have received an American Football spiral pass up the park it was that far forward! How is it possible that so many people are managing to convince themselves otherwise? Maybe can't see the forest because of all the trees - too busy studying theoretical details to stand back and see what's obvious.

Thankfully in this case it's good for a laugh, but imagine if that pass won a team the Super Rugby final.

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11 . Paulys All blacks 07 May 2013 09:48 PM
In my opinion if the ball went forward then it's a forward pass.....How the hell can you call a ball that has gone forward, a fair pass. I don't agree with this crap about forward momentum.....When do you ever see that kind of pass allowed to a NZ team...NZ teams are always pinged for a forward pass, and rightly so....how about some fairness to the game.
Is it not your imagination Swede eater...New Zealand teams playing against Australian teams seem to be getting the rough end of the stick? it's been noticiable all year!........if the ball has gone forward then it's a forward pass, how the hell can you decribe it any other way, period.



10 . The Swede Eaters 07 May 2013 04:22 PM
I have also included a video report as Lyndon Bray talks to TVNZ news about the TMO decisions in the Rebels vs Chiefs game and concedes that the disallowed Chiefs try was the wrong decision, but has no problem with the two Rebels tries scored by potential forward passes. What do you think of these TMO decisions?

http://www.superrugbytips.com/2013/05/the-tmo-in-super-rugby-when-forward.html

9 . The Swede Eaters 07 May 2013 12:53 PM
Did anyone see the O'Connor pass to Beale for his try?

8 . bulls4life 07 May 2013 10:13 AM
By that argument, you can say if a guy passes a ball behind their 22 and receives it in front of the 22, it is a forward pass, no its not, when you run and pass the ball, there is no way that the ball would not go forward, they call it momentum. So the rule is if your hands is showing forward when you pass the ball, then its a forward pass, does not matter where the ball is caught, strong winds propel the ball forward, is it forward then haha

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7 . Jeei 06 May 2013 05:54 PM
agree with deep here, the higgenbum pass was a no brainer I thought. Miles forward even with that relative velocity bollocks...

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6 . Gibbit 06 May 2013 08:30 AM
That's some shit physics... you're making Newton cry

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5 . JimmyKip 06 May 2013 08:02 AM
It's under Law 12: http://www.irblaws.com/index.php?law=12

"Definition: Throw forward
A throw forward occurs when a player throws or passes the ball forward. ‘Forward’ means towards the opposing team’s dead ball line."

Which means the referees essentially watch the direction of the players arms when throwing to ensure they run parallel to the horizontal lines of the field or towards their own try line.

Which is why Michalak's pass in 2007 was still 100% certified forward ;-)

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4 . Phar Laps Pavlova 05 May 2013 11:23 PM
hey doug from the kings you unravelled n lost it -- anyway rennie doesn't need to worry now the brumbies got dusted today

3 . KingDong 05 May 2013 09:10 PM
They were both forward you idiot. What are you a Rebels supporter? Get real Muppet. I understand the rules but those were clearly forward. That was an extra 21 point ball game if you think otherwise you need a slap like that loser TOM Steve whateverhissurnameiswhocareshesaloser

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2 . Real Deal 05 May 2013 08:49 PM
Looked forward to me?

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1 . deep 04 May 2013 07:10 PM
The pass to Higgenbots for his try brought out the very best quotable line from a TMO this weekend, possibly this year... "nothing to suggest it was a forward pass". I would have thought that 10m in front of where it was passed from and 5m in front of where the passing player stopped might have suggested something?

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